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Thread: Is CB our deepest position on D right now?

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    Is CB our deepest position on D right now?

    I'd have to say yes, with DE second. It seems odd to me that so many pundits and fans are prediciting a CB in the first round when we have 3 pretty good players already.

    Thoughts?

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    Probably 34 DE might be our deepest.....but your point is well made.

    Other well stocked positions
    QB
    WR
    OG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kware78 View Post
    I'd have to say yes, with DE second. It seems odd to me that so many pundits and fans are prediciting a CB in the first round when we have 3 pretty good players already.

    Thoughts?
    Define 'pretty good'. Sean Smith is as stiff as a board. Amerson got paid and presumed to suck ass. Carrie is just a guy and an UFA after this season. Behind him is Antonio Hamilton. Do you really want to see Antonio Hamilton out there trying to cover Tyreke Hill?
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    I think you'd be surprised how good these guys would be if they weren't asked to cover 5-6 seconds on every play. I know PPF has its flaws but they grade all three of these guys well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars View Post
    Probably 34 DE might be our deepest.....but your point is well made.

    Other well stocked positions
    QB
    WR
    OG
    Well stocked, in my interpretation is that we can sustain an injury to a starter without much dropoff.

    QB (Carr) and WR (Cooper/Crabtree) do not qualify.
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    Actually I disagree. Patterson is a big upgrade to our WR depth and Brett can play too.

    Manuel a huge upgrade over McGloin.

    I understand your point, but no team can replace pro bowlers like Carr and Coop. Their age factors in too
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kware78 View Post
    I think you'd be surprised how good these guys would be if they weren't asked to cover 5-6 seconds on every play. I know PPF has its flaws but they grade all three of these guys well.
    5-6 seconds???? That's strange I recall QB's getting rid of the ball rather quickly. Bree's was like under 3 seconds. I don't remember Alex Smith holding it for very long. We need more talent and depth at CB and seeing that 4-5 can be at the same time it makes us very thin at the position.

    We struggled with big TE's and fast shifty small guys like Cooks, Maclin and Snead. Not saying we go 1st but if ones at the top of our board then by all means. Some of these guys are so versatile they could help us in all three aspects of the game. Talent still matters in the NFL and you can never have enough of it. This is one of He deepest and most talented CB drafts ever and we'd be insane not to take advantage of it....

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    I agree that we should take one in the 2-4 round range but do you not agree CB is our deepest position on defense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kware78 View Post
    I'd have to say yes, with DE second. It seems odd to me that so many pundits and fans are prediciting a CB in the first round when we have 3 pretty good players already.

    Thoughts?
    All I will say is you have to look beyond the trees sometimes.( think longterm) This is a very deep CB class, and all three Raider top cb's could be gone after next year. D Amerson and S Smith can be cut with zero cap hit ( if they don't play better in 2017) , and Tj Carrie is an unrestricted Fa.

    Fa CB are very expensive , and it's ideal to draft your own. So I say it would be almost criminal not to draft at least one CB this year, and probably like two cb's. ( in today's football , you can never have enough quality cover cb's)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars View Post
    Actually I disagree. Patterson is a big upgrade to our WR depth and Brett can play too.

    Manuel a huge upgrade over McGloin.

    I understand your point, but no team can replace pro bowlers like Carr and Coop. Their age factors in too

    Think you were replying to me, right Mars?

    I will grant that it is impossible to replace starting studs like Coop/Carr, and especially your starting QB.

    But,
    a) do we feel confident of our QB2 holding their own and letting the other components of our team (running game/DEF) take over to win if Carr goes down? Unproven
    b) I think our passing game will suffer even if Crabtree goes down. And Patterson? Need to see results on the field before accepting him as an upgrade over Roberts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kware78 View Post
    I think you'd be surprised how good these guys would be if they weren't asked to cover 5-6 seconds on every play. I know PPF has its flaws but they grade all three of these guys well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kware78 View Post
    I agree that we should take one in the 2-4 round range but do you not agree CB is our deepest position on defense?
    No I don't agree with that statement. I don't even know who our 4th-5th CB's are. I'd be willing to bet they were udfa's or guys we just picked up off the scrap heap. Amerson was let go by Washington for a reason yes he's played better for us but we can do better. Smith is getting up there in age and struggles with smaller guys. Carrie has had injuries and couldn't even beat out Hayden. If one of those guys goes down we're in big trouble. The position isn't deep at all when you realize 4-5 of these guys can be on the field at the same time.

    We're also paying Smith and Amerson $14.5M next year. If we draft 2 rookies that can replace them we save around $10M a year for the next 3-4 years which would really help us with Carr, Mack and Coopers 2nd contracts. Adding youth to Joseph enables him to grow with guys.

    This CB/DB class is very rare and we need to take advantage of it. A lot of these guys are very versatile and can play special teams so they will be contributing right off the bat. Good teams typically don't start rookies and IMO this is the perfect way to groom them.

    I want at least two DB's from this draft and wouldn't be upset at all if we add two CB's and a S. You can never have enough good db's and the more we get the better the chance we find one that can play for the next 10 years if we find 2-3 it can only help us. We also need to keep pushing our veteran WR's and challenging them in practice and young rookies are great at that! So
    Many reasons to go this direction in the draft.

    F reaching for a DT, in a very weak DT draft, because it might be a need if MEJ gets hurt or Ward doesn't develop. We made those picks and we need to give them the opportunity to develop. We also have a gaping hoping at LB which reminds me that a guy like Peppers could even play some there. Go Raiders!!!

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    Bud, this defense has so many holes it's ridicules. Yes, I would say CB is our deepest position but could still use an upgrade.

    Thank God this draft is defense heavy......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger65 View Post
    Bud, this defense has so many holes it's ridicules. Yes, I would say CB is our deepest position but could still use an upgrade.

    Thank God this draft is defense heavy......
    Just my opinion, but I don't think we have as many holes as people think we do. There were times last year where our defense really stepped up and performed well. Further, we were second in the NFL with 30 takeaways. That is not by accident. The problem(s) just seemed to be that our players weren't always on the same page and because of this, they weren't consistent enough. We looked really good in spurts.

    Hopefully with our few coaching changes, another year with the majority of our players/coaches being together, fewer "new" defensive starters, more experience, and hopefully better health... we will see that consistency come.

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    I'd like for us to Add two CB's and two S's. One higher and lower round of each. Then mix in a RB, LB and maybe a DT. Call it a day.

    Something like this:

    1. LB
    2. CB
    3. S
    4. RB
    5. DT
    6. S
    7a. CB
    7b. BPA

    What would be better, is for us to trade the #1 and pick up an extra top 100 pick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider30 View Post
    Just my opinion, but I don't think we have as many holes as people think we do. There were times last year where our defense really stepped up and performed well. Further, we were second in the NFL with 30 takeaways. That is not by accident. The problem(s) just seemed to be that our players weren't always on the same page and because of this, they weren't consistent enough. We looked really good in spurts.

    Hopefully with our few coaching changes, another year with the majority of our players/coaches being together, fewer "new" defensive starters, more experience, and hopefully better health... we will see that consistency come.
    Great minds think alike R30! The D definitely showed signs last year especially towards the end of games when it matters most. Irvin and Mack were also coming on strong towards the end of the season and if we can just get a push up the middle that will make all the difference in the world. Being weak up the middle more often then not enabled teams to avoid them in a way. Our soft pass coverage also enabled QB's to get the ball out of their hands way to soon. We shore up those two things and Mack and Irvin get to the QB a lot more and we get even more turnovers. I am very confident that Ward and MEJ will play much better next season and that we will have some real play makers behind them. I also believe our offense will be even better and take a lot of pressure off of them and really enable them to attack. The greatness of the Raiders is in its future, it's very near future! Go Raiders!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chester View Post
    I'd like for us to Add two CB's and two S's. One higher and lower round of each. Then mix in a RB, LB and maybe a DT. Call it a day.

    Something like this:

    1. LB
    2. CB
    3. S
    4. RB
    5. DT
    6. S
    7a. CB
    7b. BPA

    What would be better, is for us to trade the #1 and pick up an extra top 100 pick.
    I could live with this but would probably go two LB's versus two Safety's or maybe even another DT. We did just use our #1 on Joseph and Nelson is still an above average player and one of the leaders on this defense. Many of the cb's in this draft can also play Safety. Reg has also shown he can find serviceable DT's in the later rounds so maybe we grab another one of those a project or role player....

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    I agree on the miss-communication and being out of position. However, they were last in sacks. Unless L Taylor is in this draft what have they done to improve in that area?


    Quote Originally Posted by Raider30 View Post
    Just my opinion, but I don't think we have as many holes as people think we do. There were times last year where our defense really stepped up and performed well. Further, we were second in the NFL with 30 takeaways. That is not by accident. The problem(s) just seemed to be that our players weren't always on the same page and because of this, they weren't consistent enough. We looked really good in spurts.

    Hopefully with our few coaching changes, another year with the majority of our players/coaches being together, fewer "new" defensive starters, more experience, and hopefully better health... we will see that consistency come.

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    Really, with Ward, Lathum, and Jelly you rate DT at our 5th biggest need? I'm surprised.

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